Tuesday, February 16, 2010
Story comments (45)
Jarobman wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 2:10 PM ETMy parents are from Jamaica (I was born here) and the only thing that bothers me in the winter is the weather here is bad for my skin, gets dry but that's pretty much it. I've never felt any of the effects of vitamin D deficiency and neither has any of my family, and none of all the dark-skinned immigrants that I have met. All of my family members are in perfect health. These scientific studies don't usually have any teeth and shouldn't be taken seriously. Quite frankly, I think many of these studies are tools for propaganda, but that's just my opinion. I think factors such as immigrants not eating their traditional and native foods as much here have more to do with them being sick than just the fact that they are dark-skinned. Imported foods are expensive here and many immigrants can't afford to buy them all the time.
A bigger issue is sickle-cell anemia in cold climates. Many people of African descent have evolved a resistance to malaria in which a percentage of red blood cells have a different shape than normal that the parasite can't infect. In warm climates, this isn't an issue but in cold climates, this can make some of us with severe sickle cell very sick.
I'll ignore this item for now and continue being glad that it's next to impossible for me to get sunburned :).
at 2:10 PM ETMy parents are from Jamaica (I was born here) and the only thing that bothers me in the winter is the weather here is bad for my skin, gets dry but that's pretty much it. I've never felt any of the effects of vitamin D deficiency and neither has any of my family, and none of all the dark-skinned immigrants that I have met. All of my family members are in perfect health. These scientific studies don't usually have any teeth and shouldn't be taken seriously. Quite frankly, I think many of these studies are tools for propaganda, but that's just my opinion. I think factors such as immigrants not eating their traditional and native foods as much here have more to do with them being sick than just the fact that they are dark-skinned. Imported foods are expensive here and many immigrants can't afford to buy them all the time.
A bigger issue is sickle-cell anemia in cold climates. Many people of African descent have evolved a resistance to malaria in which a percentage of red blood cells have a different shape than normal that the parasite can't infect. In warm climates, this isn't an issue but in cold climates, this can make some of us with severe sickle cell very sick.
I'll ignore this item for now and continue being glad that it's next to impossible for me to get sunburned :).
TootieTuttle wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 1:55 PM ETHey Alan Harrison: Other immigrants include Scottish, Irish, English, Scandinavian, and many Eastern European. Your ancestors might have been one of them, you should ask them sometime or look at them before you make such an insightful blog. Ha...
voodoostats wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 1:49 PM ETUgh, ok, how about instead of immigrant, we switch it to... If your ancestors had darker skin - with a few exceptions. Know the strengths and limitations of your heritage people. Northern and Eastern European people developed lactose tolerance to combat vitamin D deficiency during winters with limited effective sunshine. This isn't racist, it's biology - give the PC outcry a rest.
Joshua Tree wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 12:51 PM ETEat well and stay active... that's all i gotta say. Although me being a winter loving person, maybe the fact that i get excited when i see snow fall keeps me in health, you know having a positive attitude makes your body work better as a whole.
Joshua Tree wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 12:51 PM ETEat well and stay active... that's all i gotta say. Although me being a winter loving person, maybe the fact that i get excited when i see snow fall keeps me in health, you know having a positive attitude makes your body work better as a whole.
Raymondz wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 12:30 PM ETThanks for the response to my inquiry robsaw!
at 12:30 PM ETThanks for the response to my inquiry robsaw!
Skyhawk_ wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 12:20 PM ETForget about taking vitamin D supplements. You can get all the vitamin D you'll ever need from this:
http://www.seriouseats.com/images/20080815-schlitz.html
Sparx1_1 wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 12:19 PM ETKawarthaJon wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 10:52 AM ET"dark-skinned immigrants" - what about dark skinned Canadians? Why is the author of this article calling all dark skinned people "immigrants",
In case you haven't gotten the memo most of the dark skinned people in Canada ARE immigrants.
Reread the article and you will notice that the biggest reference is for groups who have very dark skin or come from very hot climates and avoid being out of doors because they find the conditions much cooler than they are used to. If you are born here you will not be nearly as likely to avoid going out on a cold day.
BigTuna wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 12:13 PM ETThunder Bay wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 8:28 AM ETGet outdoors and enjoy winter, it is a simple as that. You will get used to the cold.Skiing, snowshoeing, hockey, ice fishing, tons of things to do, pick your new pasion!
While good advice, I'm not sure that the 5 square inches of skin exposed while being outside would provide sufficient vitamin D. However, your advise would make people feel better during the winter
AlanHarrison wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 12:12 PM ET"Dark-skinned immigrants"
Ha... is there any other type these days??
at 12:12 PM ET"Dark-skinned immigrants"
Ha... is there any other type these days??
Get Smart wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 11:29 AM ETAll Canadians need vitamin D and it's free, just go outside on a sunny day and soak up some rays.
Crommunist wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 11:21 AM ETexasperation wrote: "Two minor issues with this article, what about dark-skinned non-immigrants? If a health issue affected light-skinned people we'd never say "white-skinned immigrants"... We're all Canadians.
That was my first reaction too... but then I actually took the time to read the article. The reason dark-skinned immigrants are at risk is because a) those immigrants who are most common in Canada come from places with traditional diets poor in vitamin D, and b) wear traditional clothing that is unlike that worn by Canadian-born Canadians.
So from one dark-skinned Canadian-born Canadian to another, let's tone down the racial rhetoric until it's appropriate, shall we?
Meaty Vitamin wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 11:20 AM ETPharma Shill wrote:
"This is just fear mongering from BIG-SUPPLEMENT. People who eat normally will get enough in their diet to not need pills.
I have yet to decide whether I am joking or not."
Haha, best comment I've read today! Totally hit the nail on the head.
kennymac825 wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 11:15 AM ETWhat about native born dark skinned people whose ancesters have lived in Canada for generations? Are they at risk. This needs to be addressed. You can't publish an article that highlights a health issue that is a "danger" to the dark skinned immigrant community then say nothing about those of African ancestry. It is iresponsible.
kserasera wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 10:58 AM ETGood advice.
I don't object to the "Vitamin D pictures", it grabs attention and helps gets the point across.
I also like the suggestions of getting Vitamin D naturally via sunlight exposure, but most practical in winter (when we're more covered too from sun), is also diet.
I've found one fairly economical and healthy means to increase vitamin D through diet, are SARDINES.
The fish oils too are rich in lots of good stuff, including the healthy fats, Omega3 and 6-- good HEART-food-- flush out bad fats (also suppose to help make us happier too). Helps maybe also re: diabetes (re: where fat gets concentrated on the body?)
Also, a smaller fish means less mercury poisioning (fish have less accumulated mercury poisioning, since less time in polluted waters, industrial waste, etc.).
For a healthier heart, it's recommended to include in diet, two portions of fish/week, but in winter time and for more Vitamin D, either supplement with vitamins and/or increase intake of vitamin-D rich foods in one's diet-- I try to do the latter, for economic reasons-- increasing vitamins through healthier food choices (but it's work and discipline, and educating my self).
at 10:58 AM ETGood advice.
I don't object to the "Vitamin D pictures", it grabs attention and helps gets the point across.
I also like the suggestions of getting Vitamin D naturally via sunlight exposure, but most practical in winter (when we're more covered too from sun), is also diet.
I've found one fairly economical and healthy means to increase vitamin D through diet, are SARDINES.
The fish oils too are rich in lots of good stuff, including the healthy fats, Omega3 and 6-- good HEART-food-- flush out bad fats (also suppose to help make us happier too). Helps maybe also re: diabetes (re: where fat gets concentrated on the body?)
Also, a smaller fish means less mercury poisioning (fish have less accumulated mercury poisioning, since less time in polluted waters, industrial waste, etc.).
For a healthier heart, it's recommended to include in diet, two portions of fish/week, but in winter time and for more Vitamin D, either supplement with vitamins and/or increase intake of vitamin-D rich foods in one's diet-- I try to do the latter, for economic reasons-- increasing vitamins through healthier food choices (but it's work and discipline, and educating my self).
robsaw wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 10:53 AM ETRaymondz wrote:
"I read in one source that wearing good quality sunglasses limits the UV rays entering your eyes and thereby reducing your production of vitamin D even in the summer. Does anyone have further information as to the validity of this?"
Vitamin D production is generated by the interaction with UVB rays and 7-dehydrocholesterol in your skin. Whether your eyes are shaded, opened, closed or missing makes no difference, you need to expose your skin. I couldn't find any reference on Vitamin D generation that suggests any Vitamin D is produced in the eyes.
KawarthaJon wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 10:52 AM ET"dark-skinned immigrants" - what about dark skinned Canadians? Why is the author of this article calling all dark skinned people "immigrants", unless it is somehow only immigrants and not Canadian born people with dark skin that get this deficiency. Terrible reporting!!!!!
And a note to Voice 56 - none of those foods are a significant source of vitamin D. We need 100's if not 1000's of units of vitamin D every day and you cannot get enough without sunshine or supplements. Even supplements have a tiny amount compared to sunshine.
Buffycat wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 9:20 AM ETAraneas, tradtional aboriginal diets were rich in fish oils - a natural source of vitamin D. Thus, adaptation through diet is likely the answer here.
at 9:20 AM ETAraneas, tradtional aboriginal diets were rich in fish oils - a natural source of vitamin D. Thus, adaptation through diet is likely the answer here.
Buffycat wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 9:13 AM ETDue to the sun's angle during winter you could stand outside naked all day and still not trigger any vitamin D production - it just won't happen. Coupled with the fact that even during the summer many people don't get outside during the middle of the day, or it they do they are smothered in sunscreen, it's really no wonder that most of us are D deficient.
Of course skin pigmentation also plays a role, with black skinned folks showing far lower levels of D. Rickets itself has begun to make a comeback - couple this with kids no longer going outside (even in the summer) and many ills can be explained.
So, eat better take you supplements, especially in winter and you'll find lots of aches and pains suddenly vanish.
Skyhawk_ wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 9:05 AM ETThis makes perfect sense, because vitamin D is important enough to tip the balance in favour of lighter skin whenever human populations move to more northern climes, while sacrificing a measure of UV protection that would still otherwise be beneficial in summer. This is a great example of human evolution in action, and what happens when individuals are transplanted environments they are not adapted to. Thank goodness for supplements ;-)
Araneas wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 9:02 AM ETIt would be interesting to extend this study to the aboriginal population. Being native to this climate yet darker than northern Europeans this group must have some interesting adaptations to deal with D deficiency.
runneymede wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 9:01 AM ETi thought the total number of hours of sunlight was ther same everywhere - ie 12 hours (less in winter; more in winter).
Netizen wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 10:48 AM ETEasy solution, if you live in Ottawa: take OC Transpo.
I assure you that you will get more than enough Vitamin D at the bus stop waiting for the next bus coming up.
May be Councillor Alex Cullen can make this a marketing point to attract new riders.
trukjoky wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 10:33 AM ETRaymondz:
Sounds completely nuts to me.
Vitamin D is produced by the action of the sunlight on skin. UV on the eyes gives you cataracts and there's no pill for that.
exasperation wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 10:31 AM ETi thought the total number of hours of sunlight was ther same everywhere - ie 12 hours (less in winter; more in winter).
Then you remember incorrectly. The length of the day is almost invariable at the equator. Furthermore, total solar irradiation (the amount of light which reaches the surface) is greater the closer to the equator you get (which is why solar power makes more sense in Arizona and Australia than Nunavut, even if Nunavut has sunny clear skies most of the year.). The sun really is brighter down south. =)
at 10:31 AM ETi thought the total number of hours of sunlight was ther same everywhere - ie 12 hours (less in winter; more in winter).
Then you remember incorrectly. The length of the day is almost invariable at the equator. Furthermore, total solar irradiation (the amount of light which reaches the surface) is greater the closer to the equator you get (which is why solar power makes more sense in Arizona and Australia than Nunavut, even if Nunavut has sunny clear skies most of the year.). The sun really is brighter down south. =)
Pharma Shill wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 10:29 AM ETThis is just fear mongering from BIG-SUPPLEMENT. People who eat normally will get enough in their diet to not need pills.
I have yet to decide whether I am joking or not.
Pharma Shill wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 10:26 AM ETI read in one source that wearing good quality sunglasses limits the UV rays entering your eyes and thereby reducing your production of vitamin D even in the summer. Does anyone have further information as to the validity of this?
Maybe if it's those hideous monstrosities that young girls wear that cover half their faces.
Julia_Deveau wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 10:17 AM ETTo Jane432 ->Nature has selected for people with darker skin in tropical latitudes, especially in nonforested regions, where ultraviolet radiation from the sun is usually the most intense. Melanin acts as a protective biological shield against ultraviolet radiation. By doing this, it helps to prevent sunburn damage that could result in DNA changes and, subsequently, melanoma --a cancer of the skin.... Those at highest risk are European Americans. They have a 10 times higher risk than African Americans.
(it's not about where you are from or born it's about the amount of Melanin so yes you would also be at risk)
People who live in far northern latitudes, where solar radiation is relatively weak most of the year, have an advantage if their skin has little shielding pigmentation. Nature selects for less melanin when ultraviolet radiation is weak. In such an environment, very dark skin is a disadvantage because it can prevent people from producing enough vitamin D, potentially resulting in rickets disease in children and osteoporosis in adults.
To: runneymede > Ultraviolet radiation reaching the earth usually increases in summer and decreases in winter.
To: Araneas> The Inuit people of the American Subarctic are an exception. They have moderately heavy skin pigmentation despite the far northern latitude at which they live. While this is a disadvantage for vitamin D production, they apparently made up for it by eating fish and sea mammal blubber that are high in D. In addition, the Inuit have been in the far north for only about 5,000 years. This may not have been enough time for significantly lower melanin production to have been selected for by nature.
(best info i could find)
Reference: http://anthro.palomar.edu/adapt/adapt_4.htm
voice56 wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 10:15 AM ETSorry, for those that don't like food: go ahead and panic.
I see some think it's a bad thing already LOL
exasperation wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 10:12 AM ETTwo minor issues with this article, what about dark-skinned non-immigrants? If a health issue affected light-skinned people we'd never say "white-skinned immigrants"... We're all Canadians.
And also, "Once they move to Canada, they are reluctant to brave harsh, snowy weather during the winter months." In my experience, a miserable whining intolerance of the cold is more a trait of Canadian-born Canadians ;)
at 10:12 AM ETTwo minor issues with this article, what about dark-skinned non-immigrants? If a health issue affected light-skinned people we'd never say "white-skinned immigrants"... We're all Canadians.
And also, "Once they move to Canada, they are reluctant to brave harsh, snowy weather during the winter months." In my experience, a miserable whining intolerance of the cold is more a trait of Canadian-born Canadians ;)
Unexploded wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 10:10 AM ETFrom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#Overdose
"The exact long-term safe dose of vitamin D is not known. In 1997 the U.S. Dietary Reference Intake Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) of vitamin D for children and adults was set at 50 micrograms/day (2,000 IU)[51], but this is viewed by some researchers as outdated and overly restrictive.[52] A 2007 risk assessment was made by two employees of the dietary supplement trade association Council for Responsible Nutrition,[52] that represents companies including Amway, Bayer AG and GlaxoSmithKline,[53] and their two colleagues, who declared that they had no personal or financial conflicts of interest. They suggested that 250 micrograms/day (10,000 IU) in healthy adults should be adopted as the tolerable upper limit.[52] In adults, sustained intake of 1250 micrograms/day (50,000 IU) can produce toxicity within a few months."
voice56 wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 9:59 AM ETNo need for panic, there plenty of sources for vitamin D:
Beef
Cheddar Cheese
Cream Cheese
Chicken Breast
Cows Milk
Whipping Cream
Eggs
Anchovies
Caviar
Cod
Herring
Sardines
Goat Cheese
Turkey Bacon
Yogurt
Sour Cream
Hot Dog (Turkey)
Hamburger
Bacon
Pork Sausage
Beef Sausage
Hot Dog (Beef)
Ground Turkey
Mushrooms
Alexdelarge wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 9:50 AM ETRunneymede- you are right that the total number of hours of daylight over the course of a year are the same everywhere, however daylight in this context is defined as the number of hours that the sun is above the horizon.
The difference between higher and lower latitudes is in the number of hours per day, and per year that the sun is more than 45 degrees above the horizon, which is the minimum required for the sun's rays to trigger vitamin D production in skin.
Raymondz wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 9:48 AM ETI read in one source that wearing good quality sunglasses limits the UV rays entering your eyes and thereby reducing your production of vitamin D even in the summer. Does anyone have further information as to the validity of this?
at 9:48 AM ETI read in one source that wearing good quality sunglasses limits the UV rays entering your eyes and thereby reducing your production of vitamin D even in the summer. Does anyone have further information as to the validity of this?
Shannon_Canada wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 9:46 AM ETThunder Bay,
Your advice about getting outdoors in winter is good advice for general health but it won't do much for vitamin D, as the sun is too low in the sky, and we're usually covered up by parkas!
Buffycat wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 9:35 AM ETDue to the sun's angle during winter you could stand outside naked all day and still not trigger any vitamin D production - it just won't happen. Coupled with the fact that even during the summer many people don't get outside during the middle of the day, or it they do they are smothered in sunscreen, it's really no wonder that most of us are D deficient.
Of course skin pigmentation also plays a role, with black skinned folks showing far lower levels of D. Rickets itself has begun to make a comeback - couple this with kids no longer going outside (even in the summer) and many ills can be explained.
So, eat better take you supplements, especially in winter and you'll find lots of aches and pains suddenly vanish.
Chibigizmo wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 9:30 AM ETThunder Bay wrote:
-Get outdoors and enjoy winter, it is a simple as that. You will get used to the cold.Skiing, snowshoeing, hockey, ice fishing, tons of things to do, pick your new pasion!-
While it would most likely help you absorb Vitamin D, it is not good enough when also only 15.6% of Caucasians (or Europeans) have optimal Vitamin D.
(Though I'm not sure if it is talking only about immigrants or not)
So it is not as simple as that unfortunately.
stfromwest wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 9:22 AM ETHI Folks,
Education is on the menu.
I knew the science behind this but never applied it to my real world and this is an example. This is good information to immigrants and a refresher course for the rest of us..
Milk cheese etc are good sources as well as Broccoli and of course in our summers - Sol is very good for the soul.
Alexdelarge wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 8:51 AM ETWhy does CBC keep recycling the picture of the 400 IU vitamin D tablets with every vitamin D story? The same experts they're quoting have recommended 1000 IU per day as the minimum dosage for the winter months.
BTW Thunder Bay, it's a great idea to get outside in the winter and be active, but unfortunately our bodies can't make vitamin D between October and late March in most parts of Canada.
at 8:51 AM ETWhy does CBC keep recycling the picture of the 400 IU vitamin D tablets with every vitamin D story? The same experts they're quoting have recommended 1000 IU per day as the minimum dosage for the winter months.
BTW Thunder Bay, it's a great idea to get outside in the winter and be active, but unfortunately our bodies can't make vitamin D between October and late March in most parts of Canada.
Jane432 wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 8:48 AM ETI'm wondering if this advice is also meant for dark-skinned people who are not immigrants, but are Canadian born? My parents immigrated to this country from South Asia more than 40 years ago, but i was born here. So, either, my vitamin D levels are not affected with the same problem because my skin is used to this climate, OR, the researchers of this study can't conceive that dark skinned people can actually be born here, and that we're called Canadians and everything!?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being an immigrant, obviously, but it feels like the journalist or researchers are forgetting that there are a whole lot of brown people who were born here, so they might want to address that in their limitations to their study, that: a) did not study dark skinned people who were born here, therefore don't have specific results of that group; b) didn't decipher between dark skinned immigrants and dark-skinned Canadian born (who's origin is of South-Asian descent), resulting in no control group or lack of list of differences/similarities; OR c) Just didn't bother about using the right language, resulting in coming off as thoughtless and, let's be honest, a little bit racist.
Neil Gregory wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 8:33 AM ETVitamin D supplements are probably a good idea for everyone. It seems to me that when I was a kid more than half a century ago, everyone was willing down cod-liver-oil because of its vitamin D content.
dmpembroke1 wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 8:29 AM ETWhat about dark-skinned non-immigrants? Should they take vitamin D supplements too?
Thunder Bay wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 8:28 AM ETGet outdoors and enjoy winter, it is a simple as that. You will get used to the cold.Skiing, snowshoeing, hockey, ice fishing, tons of things to do, pick your new pasion!
grassblade wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 8:05 AM ETAs a Canadian maritimer, I have to take vitamin D supplements to maintain a healthy balance during the winter. I never thought about the effects that our Canadian winters would have on people coming from warmer, sunnier places. Good to know! :)
at 8:05 AM ETAs a Canadian maritimer, I have to take vitamin D supplements to maintain a healthy balance during the winter. I never thought about the effects that our Canadian winters would have on people coming from warmer, sunnier places. Good to know! :)
NormandL wrote:Posted 2010/02/16
at 1:59 PM ETHow do they manage in Denmark, France, Germany and England. Or equivalents in Latin America at the same parallels? Inadequate study doesn't wash anymore lab-rats. We stand on guard for ourselves, since we know that pill-pushers don't stand for much more than the bottom line.