Question: [Ethiopian] troops are withdrawing; how long do you anticipate this phasing out stay?
Prime Minister Meles Zenawi: Indeed we have started our first phase withdrawal, which has been made to coincide with the stabilization measures that the Transitional Federal Government (TFG) has embarked upon. This first phase has therefore coincided with the completion of the disarmament and reintegration of the militias of the various warlords. Next phases of the withdrawals will be discussed with the TFG and be implemented as soon as possible.
Will the second and third phases of withdrawal going to happen before the deployment of AU troops or are Ethiopian troops going to work alongside them when deployment will take place?
The two processes are separate. Our withdrawal will take place on the basis of a plan that we have worked out together with the TFG. It is based on our common assessment that as the TFG consolidates, we continue to withdraw. It is my expectation that the last phases of our withdrawal will coincide with the deployment of the AU troops. One is not based on the other.
Does it [the withdrawal] have anything to do with AU summit that will start tomorrow?
Our withdrawal has nothing to do with the AU Summit, and there is no linkage. The overwhelming opinion of many in the AU is that we should not withdraw early, thus there is no pressure from the AU on us to withdraw. If there is any pressure coming from the AU, it is to try and convince us to stay there, at least until they are ready to send troops.
We have not based our decisions to withdraw [from Somalia] on the decisions of the AU to deploy troops, but on our understanding and agreement with the TFG that as it consolidates, we withdraw. The next phases of our withdrawals will be made to coincide with other steps that the TFG will be taking.
Journalists in Mogadishu have talked of about 200 Ethiopian troops withdrawing from Mogadishu, Can you confirm that?
The first phase of our withdrawal has already started yesterday [January 23] and it will continue. This was the first contingent of the first phase of our withdrawal, and it constitutes more than 200 Soldiers.
How many troops are you planning to withdraw in the three phases?
We will withdraw all our troops in the three phases.
Can you give us the numbers?
I do not think that is of interest to most of your readers.
The troops are now withdrawing from Somalia before the deployment of African Union (AU) peacekeeping troops. Don't you think this will create a vacuum in terms of security?
I do not see that for two reasons: this has been discussed in great detail with the TFG and has been arranged in such a way that it consolidates its grip [when] we withdraw. It is also my expectation that the last phases of our withdrawal will coincide with the deployment of AU troops in Somalia.
It is reported that few leaders of the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) have surrendered to the government of Kenya, how credible is that?
We have reasons to believe that Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed might have surrendered to the authorities in Kenya.
There seems to be about four issues when it comes to Somalia today. One is the reconciliation process between the TFG forces and other groups in Somalia. Second, the Ethiopian withdrawal, to be followed by the deployment of peacekeeping force as well as the need by the international community to put the resources to finance their operation.
There seems to be a serious challenges in all these because President Abdulahi Yosuf of the TFG appears to be reluctant to enter into a serious dialogue with the Hawiya clan leaders, the ousted Speaker of Parliament, Sharif Hassan Sheikh Adan, and moderate UIC leaders possibly such as Sheikh Sharif.
I am aware of a very detailed plan of internal dialogue that has been enunciated by the TFG of Somalia; and I am very comfortable with that plan. I am also aware that pundits have different opinions in that regard; I would submit to you that all these pundits have in the past been proven wrong beyond reasonable doubt on every count. If the TFG were to base its actions on the analysis of these pundits, it would by now have been dead and buried. The TFG is absolutely right to ignore the analysis of these pundits and do what it has to do to engage all sectors of Somali society in dialogue the Somali way. They know how to do it best.
There is also a great deal of fear that the withdrawal by Ethiopian forces before the actual deployment of troops would be creating a power vacuum in Somalia. When it comes to the deployment of peacekeeping forces, it is only Uganda that is seriously committed at this stage and no other African country. Even Uganda's President, Mr. Museveni would like to be assured exit strategy and a secured source of financing.
I am very comfortable with the decisions that have already been taken place at the Peace and Security Council of the AU on the deployment of peacekeeping forces. I am very confident that this will be reconfirmed by the Summit of the heads of state, which will take place here soon [January 29 to 30, 2007]. I am also very comfortable with the number of countries that have offered to deploy troops. It is not just Uganda; there are a number of other countries who have publicly declared that they are eager to send troops and there are countries that I know of who are willing and able to contribute.
The problem will not be that the African countries are not ready to deploy troops; neither will it be that the AU has not made the right decision. The problem might be those who have resources may be reluctant to provide the necessary resources, although we will have to wait and see.
The international community seems to be quite supportive of the TFG; do you know why they are reluctant?
I am not sure what the problem as far as allocation of resources is concerned; you will have to ask those with the money as to why they are not eager to depart with it.
Are you not frustrated because the international community is not doing what it is supposed to do in putting the resources that is crucial to the success of Ethiopia's withdrawal?
I do not have any right to be frustrated [because] it is not up to Ethiopia that the matter is a Somali matter. It is up to the Somalis to be happy or frustrated. But, I do not know whether the Somalis are frustrated, although I would not be surprised if they are frustrated. As far as Ethiopia is concerned, we have done what we had to do for our own security. On that score we have no regrets.
Would you please confirm to us that the threat against Ethiopia is gone by now?
There is no clear and present danger to Ethiopia's security coming from Somalia.
Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys, head of the defunct UIC Advisory Council [Shura] is a wanted person both by Ethiopia and the international community. On the other hand, the US and the EU are pushing for dialogue. What would be the stand of Ethiopia?
It is to back the TFG, which we believe has a comprehensive plan for internal dialogue not only with the Hawiya as a clan but with their various sub-clans that have had problems with the TFG in the past. The only dialogue involving Somali populations that have succeeded - that I know of - is a dialogue in Somalia. The distinctive characteristic of that dialogue has been that it was not led or guided by external forces, including external experts, and it was a purely internal Somali process of dialogue.
Since every other dialogue that has taken place in Geneva, Addis Abeba, Khartoum, or Nairobi has had its problems, I would not be surprised if the TFG opted for the only type of dialogue that has succeeded so far, which is an internal dialogue amongst Somalis. The TFG is engaged in all-inclusive dialogue as understood by the Somali society. It is not apparently interested in an all-inclusive dialogue as defined by defunct experts that have been proved wrong over and over again. I prefer to trust the Somalis and believe that the Somalis can sort their own problems out the Somali way, rather than trust the experts as to who to include and who to exclude.
The dialogue to which you were referring, does it include the UIC or is it without them because the Prime Minister [of Somalia] last week in Khartoum said that there would be no talk with the UIC leaders.
As far as I know, the UIC does not exist; its leaders disbanded themselves as they left Mogadishu.
Would you like to comment on the statement made by Loui Mitchell, European Commission's director general for Development, that aid from the EU is conditional to the TFG's agreement to enter into dialogue with former Speaker of Parliament?
People are entitled to their own opinion and they have the right to make decisions as far as their money is concerned.
Would you like to see Sheikh Sharif be brought back into reconciliation process with the TFG?
He does not represent anybody.
Could you get us any cost [estimate] this whole endeavor has been to Ethiopia?
It is not as high as some people think [it is].
There has also been a media report that the Americans have bombed Somalia yesterday .Do you have any information on that?
I am not aware of any such incident in Somalia.
I understand that you usually do not agree with comments made by pundits; but there seems to be an emerging analysis by these very same pundits that Ethiopia's early withdrawal - they describe it as early withdrawal - from Somalia is because of its interest to see Somalia slide back to the pre-UIC period. They argue that Ethiopia does not wish to see Somalia as a united country because it looks at it as a long-term threat to its national security. I would like you to comment on the fundamental foreign policy of Ethiopia towards Somalia.
The analysis of these so-called pundits on Somalia, particularly in the past month and half, was proven to be wrong beyond any reasonable doubt on every single count. As to their predictions for the future, we will have to wait and see whether they will be equally proved wrong.
If we had wanted to create a maximum havoc in Somalia, we would have withdrawn immediately after defeating the UIC militia; immediately! We would not have delayed our withdrawal and we would have not phased it. It is in Ethiopia’s interest that there [continues] to be a stable government in Somalia which is able to protect itself and does not become a safe heaven for terrorists. That is the fundamental national security interest of Ethiopia, and not chaos.
Time and again, we heard about the involvement of Eritrea, whose President Issayas, recently went out of his way in stating that the UIC has not been defeated that it is making problems to the Ethiopian Army. Would you please comment on this?
I think these are remarks by a force that has tried to be relevant but has been pushed to irrelevance and is trying to act as if it is still relevant.
I know that you are comfortable with the details of reconciliation program you have been briefed by President Yusuf of the TFG. Are you happy with the speed that it is going and being implemented?
Given the fact that the Somali state had effectively been disintegrated, I cannot expect it to move at a much faster pace than it currently is. Given the ideal conditions, one would have liked them to move faster but I am aware that the circumstances in Somalia are not that ideal and one has to live with second best options.
I am sorry Mr. Prime Minister, I may be reading you wrong - please correct me if that is the case. My reading is that you seem to be sending a message to the international community telling them that you better do what you need to do now before we are withdrawing and withdrawal has consequences. Is that the kind of message you are giving?
No! The kind of message I am giving is that Ethiopia was involved in this exercise for two reasons: To protect its security, and to assist the Somalis to the maximum of its capacity. We have completed the first and we are doing the second as much as we could. Therefore, having done our job and having become redundant in Somalia, we are simply winding it up.
Is it possible to say Ethiopia's mission [in Somalia] is concluded?
As far as a purely Ethiopian aspect of the mission is concerned, it is concluded and concluded successfully. As far as supporting the Somalis is concerned, the responsibility is not only of Ethiopia's but of everyone in the international community. There is still some ways to go but we are doing our very best and assist the Somali people to recover, although we can do so only to the best of our abilities. If the rest of the international community chips in fine, if they do not, it is up to them. I think Ethiopians can be proud of what Ethiopia has done to help the Somali people.
Jendayi Frazer (PhD), assistant secretary for African Affairs in the United States' Department of State, last week said that she is not happy that the former Speaker of TFG's Parliament was ousted from his position. Would you like to see him come back in some sort of arrangement made with TGF authorities?
I would not like anybody telling me that if I were to be in the TFG's position. It does not go well with the sense of pride and independence of the Ethiopian people. And the Somali people are, if anything, even more difficult to micromanage from outside. Therefore, I am very reluctant to think of telling the Somalis how to run their affairs, including how to run their reconciliation process. I know it back fires.
Source: Addis Fortune, Jan 30, 2007